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little things . . . big pain

October 26, 2005

Some get very angry when issues of an unpleasant nature of discussed regarding the brokenness of our denomination. make no mistake about it either, there is very real brokenness. I'm not speaking of individual hurts and distress of which there are many; I am referring to our doctrinal brokenness.

Some say that is focusing on the negative . . . I say that's ignoring reality. Not discussing and resolving issues where we as a family (we really are a family) are at odds, perpetuates the discord. That does none of us ANY good. We are not made of glass. God has developed humans to be pretty tough. After 6000 years of sin, we are still hangin' in. Albeit battered, broken and bruised, we are still here. So it seems to me that we can handle with Gods grace, some honest, candid conversation about what is really going on with us.

If I stub my toe, my little one, it hurts so bad that I forget that ANYTHING ELSE actually exist. If I try to bring healing and comfort to that area, does that mean I am not appreciative of ALL THE WORKING PARTS? No. Its just that I need to attend to the part that is in pain.

As a people, our little toe is in pain and I would like to see us work together to bring some health and healing to it. I'm thankful for all the working parts, but the toe is really killing me . . . feel me?

- Re: little things . . . big pain from Jason Diggs, November 9, 2005

Jen and Aimee, I appreciate your feed back very much! One of the most challenging aspects of personal surrender I face is leaving results to God. It's not up to me to bring perfection to HIS church; it's up to me to stay surrendered, so HE can keep it in me. The 3 angels messages is a message full of power, love and warning! Lets pray for Jesus to be lifted up in his fullness in us, that we may be used in HIS plans for lighting our world!

- Re: little things . . . big pain from Aimee, November 5, 2005

It's true that the SDA message has been watered down here in America. I grew up in 5 different states, always attending Adventist schools and churches. And I totally missed the 3 Angels messages, not to mention anything in depth about how to live a godly life, until after high school. Only at a self-supporting SDA college did I finally hear the undiluted Adventist message. I also never received any training that would enable me to be a part of spreading the gospel while I attended all these denominational schools. Where is the urgency? Where is the awareness of the crisis? What is the point of having this SDA educational system if we're not going to use it for what it's intended for--to give us an education to prepare us for heaven & to train the youth to spread the gospel? We surely are asleep in the light.

- Re: little things . . . big pain from jen*, November 2, 2005

i understand your concern over the apparent "watering down" of the message in various areas (specifically in the US)...certainly, i've observed the trend over the past few years (more than a few now, actually) to try to make our public stance as...palatable as possible. when facing the inevitable question (what do Adventists believe? or some variation) from friends and acquaintances, i myself have been strongly tempted to say that we're pretty similar to baptists...only we go to church on Saturday.It's an easy answer, and it makes everybody feel reasonably comfortable. But it's not true. Our unique message isn't the Sabbath, it isn't the state of the dead, it isn't vegetarianism, it isn't having a prophet. It's the investigative judgement and the 3 angel's message.I think that at times as a church we've fallen into a similar trap of telling people the things that are most comfortable to say and hear. We're not immune to the Laodicean temptations of complacency. All that being said, the issue of the church's unity behind the message and with the world body is preferable, but how can it be quantified? Just cuz I've been to churches and you've been to churches that don't seem to make the 2nd coming and the 3 angels' messages top priorities does that mean the church is fragmented? If it does or if it doesn't, I don't think Jesus is waiting for all the churches to be about His business before He returns. That's not going to happen.I want our church as a whole to be doing the will of the Father, but I understand that my responsibility goes to my own example first. Then to my primary circle of influence. Certainly, I should raise concerns with my local and even world church leaders when I feel that we're not focused on what our purpose should be, but I already know that everyone in the church will not choose to be saved. Sad, but true.I do think that as time gets shorter, there will be a renewed focus on our present truth by those who are truly seeking to do the Lords's work, and I think that a great majority of those will be young people. So, yes, it is vitally important that we continue to champion the message, especially so that the young people can understand it and share it with others.

- Re: little things . . . big pain from jason Diggs, October 31, 2005

All of those comments especially the "maybe the church is not one,"lead me back to the original point of the little toe. The Fact that "we" were never one is the "KEY" reason Jesus HAS NOT come back yet! We were doing good then, AS we are doing good now, but what good is that doing us IF WE ARE NOT ONE! If the pioneers were ever one, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.In fact, we wouldn’t even be!

Jesus is coming back but for a COMPLETELY UNIFIED church; not just a fragmented denomination of do gooders. This is just what I am wanting to bring to the surface because all of the talk and discussion of the good we're doing, will not hasten Jesus' 2nd coming.

When we all reflect him, THEN and only then will he show up. We can not reflect him and be as divided as we currently are simultaneously. Talking about the "good" isn't bring the healing we need as a people. Our founders missed out for the same reason we may . . . not being unified in the faith. The failure on their part to achieve that end---oneness in & of faith---- is no reason we can not succeed!!! But first we need to acknowledge that we've stubbed our toe.

When your toe is stubbed and aching, it feels like you can die! During those moments, the last thing on your mind are all the working parts. All your concentration is geared toward bring healing to the injury. Am I wrong for pointing out our hurt?!?

I appreciate the growth you spoke of. I did not “know” the message and thankfully like you, God has and continues to water the seeds planted in my youth. The point worth mentioning here is that there were seeds to water. I hear questions, read statistics and see a reality in my experience and that of others who travel, teach, preach etc. that suggests seeds are being planted now that will yeild a different harvest than what you and I are speaking off. This of course is true because Jesus even says that the wheat and tears will exist until he separates them.

I am hoping that our voice will bear a “certain” sound! The youth need to know all is not well and they need to know why! Its not a voice of negativity but one of loving concern. All the positive talk of all the good we do, will not bring us to the point of unified faith.Again I say, the TOE is stubbed and badly damaged and because we’ve tried to focus on all the working parts to the exclusion of “healing the toe” we haven’t yet been taken home where we all can be granted a home forever free from ever hurting again!!!!!!!!

This is one case where it's not good to be good enough!

- Re: little things . . . big pain from Dwain, October 31, 2005

I can understand your desire to have our youth know the messages that make us uniquely Adventist. I share that view. Did you know them when you were 13, 14, and 15. I had heard of them, but I confess, I didn't "know" them. God planted a seed, which has been watered through the years by messages from preachers, parents, my personal growth in God, etc. In many ways, this message can be shared more with our youth.

However, if this was the original point you hoped to make, I would suggest that you say that. In your original post, you took issue with The Seventh-day Adventist Church, and there's no one I know, including the GC President, who can speak for God's church on earth. This is not meant to obscure the issue of the need for Present Truth. The point needs to be made that God's special message is being preached all across this world by Seventh-day Adventists who have not apostacized. If you don't know that this is happening, investigate before making blanket statements about the state of Adventism. As you correctly note, only God can judge His church.

It may be the case that all the church is not one, as you note, but I challenge you to show a time in the history of Adventism when the church was "one." This church is far from perfect, but I really can't find a better one down here. God is using this church to do great things in this world. What's good about the Seventh-day Adventist Church? When are we going to talk about that?

- Re: little things . . . big pain from jason Diggs, October 31, 2005

Only God can judge the whole church for better or worse. Whenever "absolutes are spoken of, it distracts from the issue. An the issue is; are we making a call into "the" ark of safety or "an" ark of safety?Jesus FINAL prayer was that his followers be ONE! Ephesians 4:5 says: One Lord, one faith, one baptism.

When we as SDA's visit any congregation, company or other member, there should be a oneness in our faith that bonds us closer than our bloodlines!

Sadly this isn't the case and sadder is the fact that many, especially this recent generation, aren't aware of the special truths (sanctuary/3 angels) that make this denomination the ark of safety.

This glaring lack of awareness, speaks to the "little toe" issue I raised. The over all focus is concentrated on the love and forgiveness of Jesus . . . to the exclusion (or the watered down teaching) of victory over sin. God clearly gave EGW visions on this very point--spiritualizing away present truth!

If the youth by and large are not aware of the roots and power of this message, how can they be expected to faithful live it and fearless proclaim it? If they don't know "it" how can they know that "it's" missing?

- Re: little things . . . big pain from Dwain, October 31, 2005

I understand some of what you are saying about Present Truth and it's necessity to be preached in these final scenes before Jesus comes. Did I understand you to say that "The Seventh-day Adventist Church" as a whole is not preaching this message? If so, how do you account for the growth of this faith all around the globe? Is this the result of "smooth" preaching about lifestyle issues?

I may go with you on this thinking when it comes to North America, and only parts of North America, because among many groups, God's word has and end-time flavor? I need a little more definition of who you are referrring to before I conclude that the whole Adventist Church is not preaching present truth.

- Re: little things . . . big pain from jason Diggs, October 31, 2005

Hi Jen,I'm referring to the truths that make us a peculiar people. Preaching on the love of Jesus without "teaching" about what that love means is evangelical. Evangelical preaching is the idea that ALL we need to do is believe but the bible does not "teach" this. Believing is a critical step but it is NOT the FINAL step!

The SDA faith was not designed to be a Saturday variety of the 1st day message. There is a HUGE world of difference between Pleasant truth and PRESENT truth.

Jesus referred to Noah when describing the last days right? Noah when building the ark could have preached about being a good parent, a responsible citizen, a loving neighbor or being a loving spouse etc, etc. All these are pleasant and necessary truths . . . BUT . . . would those truths "alone" have awakened the urgency to make the DECISION to get into THE ARK which was THE PRESENT truth for that time?!?!?!

God was preparing to save the creation he loved by bringing them into His ark of safety. This message was a life saving message full of love. Just as the 3 Angel's message is the "ark of safety" today!

It would have done and is no good, to be a good parent, spouse, neighbor or citizen outside the ark!I'm curious, have you been taught or are at lease fimilar with what the 3 Angels message's are?

- Re: little things . . . big pain from jen*, October 27, 2005

what are u referring to? if u can go into the specifics here...

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